Comments on: CCK08: There *are* rules to engagement http://gminks.edublogs.org/2008/10/13/cck08-there-are-rules-to-engagement/ Mon, 30 Jan 2012 21:45:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Ed Webb http://gminks.edublogs.org/2008/10/13/cck08-there-are-rules-to-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-137 Ed Webb Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:25:43 +0000 http://gminks.edublogs.org/?p=97#comment-137 Thanks for the reminder of Warner on gossip. That's just one of the reasons we need more feminist perspectives in this discussion - that whole 'networks are rational and groups are emotional' bit just didn't hold together, and the rationality and utility of gossip as both networked knowledge and group maintenance shows why such binaries as rational/emotional should always be challenged, along with group/network. Gina, I agree that it is not always the case that an authority figure needs to spell out the expected norms. But the act of doing so is one of the ways someone marks themselves as an authority figure. It is, in Stephen's terms, group rather than network behavior, if I read him correctly. Final point - Stephen's slide show linked to in this morning's Daily was extraordinarily useful in helping me understand how he situates himself and his ideas: did anyone else find it so? Thanks for the reminder of Warner on gossip. That’s just one of the reasons we need more feminist perspectives in this discussion – that whole ‘networks are rational and groups are emotional’ bit just didn’t hold together, and the rationality and utility of gossip as both networked knowledge and group maintenance shows why such binaries as rational/emotional should always be challenged, along with group/network.

Gina, I agree that it is not always the case that an authority figure needs to spell out the expected norms. But the act of doing so is one of the ways someone marks themselves as an authority figure. It is, in Stephen’s terms, group rather than network behavior, if I read him correctly.

Final point – Stephen’s slide show linked to in this morning’s Daily was extraordinarily useful in helping me understand how he situates himself and his ideas: did anyone else find it so?

]]> By: MadCat http://gminks.edublogs.org/2008/10/13/cck08-there-are-rules-to-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-136 MadCat Tue, 14 Oct 2008 14:34:47 +0000 http://gminks.edublogs.org/?p=97#comment-136 With all due respect - any university course in which asking someone to clarify their ideas is considered off limits isn't worth the time to sit through it. It's either an exercise in venting ("all ideas are equally valid") or Animal Farm ("all ideas are equal, but some ideas (mine) are more equal than others." With all due respect – any university course in which asking someone to clarify their ideas is considered off limits isn’t worth the time to sit through it. It’s either an exercise in venting (“all ideas are equally valid”) or Animal Farm (“all ideas are equal, but some ideas (mine) are more equal than others.”

]]> By: your daughter http://gminks.edublogs.org/2008/10/13/cck08-there-are-rules-to-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-135 your daughter Tue, 14 Oct 2008 12:07:33 +0000 http://gminks.edublogs.org/?p=97#comment-135 :D Also pointed out in From the Beast to the Blonde: On Fairy Tales and Their Tellers (Marina Warner, 1996). It talks a lot about gossip as a way of informal learning. (since it is from a folklorist perspective, it doesn't use those exact words, though.) :D
Also pointed out in From the Beast to the Blonde: On Fairy Tales and Their Tellers (Marina Warner, 1996). It talks a lot about gossip as a way of informal learning. (since it is from a folklorist perspective, it doesn’t use those exact words, though.)

]]> By: gminks http://gminks.edublogs.org/2008/10/13/cck08-there-are-rules-to-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-134 gminks Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:32:28 +0000 http://gminks.edublogs.org/?p=97#comment-134 Ed, I don't know if an authority figure needs to spell out the expected norms. Groups will exclude new members if they don't conform to the norms, but usually they are cues you can pick up to help you understand how you need to alter your speech or behavior in order to meet the group's expectation for behavior. If someone doesn't use the cues to alter their interactions, then the group excludes them. Aspies usually don't pick up on the cues, sometimes to the point that they have been excluded from the group for a while (and they didn't even catch THAT cue!). I think in our case, there are enough of us who want to still engage in the CCK08 class, even if there seems to be a mismatch in the behavior expectations for the group. The Aspergers-group-network thing is interesting --- I may write about that more. Ed, I don’t know if an authority figure needs to spell out the expected norms. Groups will exclude new members if they don’t conform to the norms, but usually they are cues you can pick up to help you understand how you need to alter your speech or behavior in order to meet the group’s expectation for behavior.

If someone doesn’t use the cues to alter their interactions, then the group excludes them. Aspies usually don’t pick up on the cues, sometimes to the point that they have been excluded from the group for a while (and they didn’t even catch THAT cue!).

I think in our case, there are enough of us who want to still engage in the CCK08 class, even if there seems to be a mismatch in the behavior expectations for the group.

The Aspergers-group-network thing is interesting — I may write about that more.

]]> By: Ed Webb http://gminks.edublogs.org/2008/10/13/cck08-there-are-rules-to-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-133 Ed Webb Tue, 14 Oct 2008 02:51:53 +0000 http://gminks.edublogs.org/?p=97#comment-133 You are right that nothing in Stephen's injunction on legitimate forms of participation precludes questions designed to elicit greater clarity from another participant. However, if we need to conform to the norm he sets out there, we simply need to phrase questions in a form that simultaneously imparts knowledge gained "from the perspective of things you have learned in the past." Like Edward Said in Culture and Imperialism, we are to be actively aware of the past in the present. Thus: Gina, based upon my past experiences with Asberger Syndrome, I think I understand your point about information-seeking behavior to be that every social setting imposes certain norms of inquiry, and cck08 is no different in that sense, it has just taken a lot of 'delinquent' behavior to force an authority figure to spell out clearly what those norms are in this setting. Am I understanding you correctly? If so, I really, really want to see an extension of the power/knowledge discussion that started and then ran aground in that Passion & Reason thread, because this looks like a typical power discourse of othering, that puts certain styles of inquiry [and those used to employing them] outside the group. Er, sorry, outside the network. You are right that nothing in Stephen’s injunction on legitimate forms of participation precludes questions designed to elicit greater clarity from another participant. However, if we need to conform to the norm he sets out there, we simply need to phrase questions in a form that simultaneously imparts knowledge gained “from the perspective of things you have learned in the past.” Like Edward Said in Culture and Imperialism, we are to be actively aware of the past in the present. Thus: Gina, based upon my past experiences with Asberger Syndrome, I think I understand your point about information-seeking behavior to be that every social setting imposes certain norms of inquiry, and cck08 is no different in that sense, it has just taken a lot of ‘delinquent’ behavior to force an authority figure to spell out clearly what those norms are in this setting. Am I understanding you correctly? If so, I really, really want to see an extension of the power/knowledge discussion that started and then ran aground in that Passion & Reason thread, because this looks like a typical power discourse of othering, that puts certain styles of inquiry [and those used to employing them] outside the group. Er, sorry, outside the network.

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